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Discussion: Playlist du mois de novembre 2017

  1. #21
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    Citation Envoyé par lebewohl Voir le message
    Je n'y connais pas grand chose, mais j'ai l'impression, à entendre ce récital d'orgue, que les orgues italiens ont une sonorité "nationale" aussi caractéristique que les français ou les allemands. Pourtant, d'après ce que notre coforumiste cunicole nous rapporte, c'est un orgue du XIXe, période à laquelle les différences, frappantes aux XVIIe et XVIIIe siècle, me semblaient s'être atténuée. Et puis, mais ça je l'avais déjà constaté in situ (je parle beau, hein?), ils sont aussi un aspect visuel spécifique. Et la disposition "in cornu evnagelii" est très italienne, comme le souligne fort justement notre honorable lapin (attention, il y a un gag dans ces deux derniers mots)
    Quelques éléments de réponse ici ou ici
    Dernière modification par The Fierce Rabbit ; 30/11/2017 à 17h44.

  2. #22
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    Citation Envoyé par lebewohl Voir le message
    purée... quand on entend la basse que le bolchoï biélorusse a trouvé pour chanter le rôle que j'imagine tout de même mineur du veilleur, on se demande ce qui leur fait ça, aux slaves de l'est : le climat continental? la vodka? le borchtch?
    Un p'tit cocktail des trois, avec un peu de kvas aussi ...
    Je suggèrerais bien au Chef cette Orestie-là pour ses prochains transferts vers la BM.

  3. #23
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    Citation Envoyé par lebewohl Voir le message
    j'ai l'impression, à entendre ce récital d'orgue, que les orgues italiens ont une sonorité "nationale" aussi caractéristique que les français ou les allemands. Pourtant, , c'est un orgue du XIXe, période à laquelle les différences, frappantes aux XVIIe et XVIIIe siècle, me semblaient s'être atténuée. Et puis, mais ça je l'avais déjà constaté in situ ils sont aussi un aspect visuel spécifique.
    Deux beaux instruments en France, le Serassi de Tende et le Lingiardi de Saorge

    [IMG][/IMG]

    [IMG][/IMG]

  4. #24
    Modérateur Avatar de lebewohl
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    Citation Envoyé par The Fierce Rabbit Voir le message
    Quelques éléments de réponse ici ou ici
    ah merci bien
    Il s'engendre beaucoup d'abus au monde ou, pour le dire plus hardiment, tous les abus du monde s'engendrent de ce qu'on nous apprend à craindre de faire profession de notre ignorance.

    Montaigne

  5. #25
    Modérateur Avatar de lebewohl
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    Je trouve ça (revue Fanfare)

    Oresteia, a music trilogy was Sergei Taneyev’s only opera. He spent seven years working on it, only to have the 1895 premiere be a disaster, the music cut to shreds by a Mariinsky director who then refused to conduct it. There was a brief revival in 1915, after which Oresteia disappeared from sight. I don’t know if there were any more performances before this 1965 one in Minsk (this is apparently a studio recording).

    The music is recognizably Russian, although conservative for 1895. There are hints of Mussorgskyan power here and there, plus a good deal of Tchaikovskyan lyricism. But these are inconsistent flashes; the music has no center. The opera is an assemblage of often impressive but generic numbers that do not add up to a coherent drama, certainly not to the awful goings on of these mythological Greek figures. Character is seldom established: Clytemnetsra, of all people, sounds like a vaguely sad discarded lover rather than a revenging terror; she is a bit more convincing as a haunted murderer. Perhaps it’s too much to expect Taneyev, an instrumental and orchestral composer, to be a great dramatist, but—having chosen this subject matter—he does ask for just that. Is there any other Russian opera that is not based on that country’s culture?

    We have become accustomed to Russian operas receiving gold-star treatment—at the Met, at Covent Garden, and on CDs and videos from the Mariinsky and the Bolshoi. Standards are not as high in Minsk—at least they weren’t in 1965. Nor can I find any more recent recordings from this company (I’d be delighted to be proven wrong). The orchestra is sloppy, the chorus inconsistently voiced and tuned, and the conductor doesn’t drive the performance forward, as the subject matter and some of the music demands. There is a shocking spot in No. 19, a quartet with Clytemnestra, Orestes, Electra, and Aegisthus, where the ensemble becomes as fractured as the family relationships. Yet there are some thrilling moments. The singers are almost first-rate: thoroughly Russian in their full-bodied voices, typically so in their forceful if unsubtle singing. Dramatic soprano Ninel Tkachenko is outstanding as Cassandra; Ivan Dubrovin offers an easily produced, open, shining tenor as Orestes. Others suffer various minor faults: The Electra has a wide vibrato, the Agamemnon sounds old before his time; Aegisthus at least sounds like the egotistical villain he is supposed to be. Political clout may have affected the casting choices: The opening aria, by “a watchman,” displays the most solid, potent bass in the opera, one Stanislav Frolov.

    The 1965 recording was first issued here on Deutsche Grammophon LPs. Peter J. Rabinowitz reviewed an earlier Melodiya CD issue, MCD 195, in Fanfare 13:6, noting that neither of two copies tracked properly in either of two CD players. That issue did have an English-only libretto (which Rabinowitz found to be sometimes at odds with what was being sung); neither the DG nor the new Melodiya has a libretto in any language. A vocal score in Russian, French, and German is for sale on the Net.

    Rabinowitz also wondered if there might be a stronger opera lurking behind this “sub-mediocre” recording. Leon Botstein and the American Symphony Orchestra gave the American premiere at Bard College in the summer of 2013. Opinions there were divided: Michael Miller in the journal New York Arts called it a masterpiece; Steven Smith in the New York Times said that “Taneyev caromed from grand scenes thickly redolent of Wagner, Verdi, Meyerbeer and Gounod to striking passages inspired by Handelian oratorios and Mozart’s Don Giovanni, punctuated with fleeting, arresting inventions all his own.” That performance may be downloaded (as 33 “songs,” in the wrong order); the orchestra is much better than in Minsk, as is the recorded sound. Botstein’s singers—almost all young Russians—are generally very fine but cannot match the Cassandra and Orestes of the Minsk performance. The singers at Bard apparently were not individually miked; they are heard mostly in the background and are often swamped by their accompaniment, so I cannot recommend that recording over this one. I think Smith’s “Meyerbeer” nails Oresteia, and I suspect, Peter, that there is no stronger opera lurking.

    I’m not too pleased with the new transfer: It has cleaner sound than the DG LPs but lacks their warmth and fullness. One might say that the LPs sounded like a typical DG recording of the era, whereas this sounds like a Melodiya one. Singers are generally clear, but orchestral fortes are still rumbling blurs, which may be partially the orchestral playing. Oddly, Orestes is often heard at the extreme left or right of the recording stage. The covers of the DG set and this new one both show the angry furies attacking a cowering Orestes; over the decades the gals have lost most of their clothing, thanks to William-Adolphe Bouguereau.

    Half a century after this recording was made, it remains the only CDs of Taneyev’s only opera. Oresteia may not measure up to Tchaikovsky or Rimsky-Korsakov, to Boris or even Prince Igor, but it is worth hearing for its occasionally glorious music. James H. North
    Il s'engendre beaucoup d'abus au monde ou, pour le dire plus hardiment, tous les abus du monde s'engendrent de ce qu'on nous apprend à craindre de faire profession de notre ignorance.

    Montaigne

  6. #26
    Modérateur Avatar de lebewohl
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    et ça

    Oresteia is Sergei Taneyev’s only opera, and this is one of only three recordings made of the work. The others are an obscure 1958 radio broadcast from the Leningrad Opera, featuring the great Sofia Probazhenskaya as Clytemnestra, which I have not heard (for details see russiancdshop.com/music.php?zobraz=details& id=30208& lang=de), and the 2013 American premiere with Leon Botstein leading his American Symphony Orchestra and a group of Russian soloists, available only as an mp3 download (see amazon.com/gp/product/B00FOTT6TS). The two Russian performances apparently have unspecified cuts; the Botstein claims to be complete, but what constitutes a “complete” version of a score that Taneyev repeatedly revised in order to gain the handful of performances it was granted in his lifetime is apparently a much-vexed musicological issue. (Several reviews I have seen assert that a totally uncut performance would last almost four hours, and Botstein’s is nowhere near that long.)

    This one, the only studio version, has been reviewed twice before in these pages: an earlier CD incarnation by Peter Rabinowitz (13:6), and this new reissue by James H. North (39:5). Their assessments of both the work and this performance largely coincide. Rabinowitz found the opera “uneven” in quality, with “theatrical weaknesses” but “a great deal of intrinsic musical merit” despite being “bizarrely eclectic, filled with fragments of Mendelssohn, Rossini, Balakirev, Tchaikovsky, and Wagner (not to mention premonitions of Elgar) that never cohere.” North largely agreed: “There are hints of Mussorgskyan power here and there, plus a good deal of Tchaikovskyan lyricism. But these are inconsistent flashes; the music has no center. The opera is an assemblage of often impressive but generic numbers that do not add up to a coherent drama....” Likewise, neither one was particularly enthusiastic for this rendition. Rabinowitz peremptorily dismissed it as a “sub-mediocre recording” with “creaky ensemble,” an “amateurish chorus,” and “solid, but unsubtle” soloists. North was somewhat more positive: “The orchestra is sloppy, the chorus inconsistently voiced and tuned, and the conductor doesn’t drive the performance forward,” but “The singers are almost first-rate: thoroughly Russian in their full-bodied voices, typically so in their forceful if unsubtle singing.” In comparing the Botstein performance to this one, he observed: “[T]he orchestra is much better than in Minsk, as is the recorded sound. Botstein’s singers—almost all young Russians—are generally very fine but cannot match the Cassandra and Orestes of the Minsk performance....”

    Most informatively, North also cites divided critical assessments of the work itself by critics who reviewed the Botstein performance. Michael Miller, in an erudite review for New York Arts (available online at newyorkarts.net/2013/09/sergey-taneyev-oresteia-bard/), called the music “amazingly original.” Steven Smith in the New York Times (nytimes.com/2013/07/30/arts/music/oresteia-is-revived-as-prelude-to-bard-music-festival.html) sided with Rabinowitz and North: “Taneyev caromed from grand scenes thickly redolent of Wagner, Verdi, Meyerbeer and Gounod to striking passages inspired by Handelian oratorios and Mozart’s ‘Don Giovanni,’ punctuated with fleeting, arresting inventions all his own.” British reviewers have been similarly divided in their assessments. The pseudonymous “Terentius Varro” (bachtrack.com/22/296/view/110) praised the work highly on its 2011 UK premiere performance: “The rapturous applause that greeted the end of Act I of the trilogy was certainly well deserved, and I for one cannot wait to be immersed again into the seething melting pot of Mycenaean machinations for future performances of Acts II and III.” By contrast, in a review of a 2006 concert performance in St. Petersburg (socialaffairsunit.org.uk/blog/archives/000834.php), David Conway allied himself with the detractors: “Time and again I heard wonderful – even thrilling – passages....But time and again these high spots were fatally undermined by prosaic or cliché follow ups....”

    I expect that this review may only add to cognitive dissonance for Fanfare readers. Regarding the opera’s worth as dramaturgy and music, I side with Miller and “Varro” in finding the work compelling. It is very much in line with the mature dramas of Gluck; if handled poorly it will come across as overly formal and static, with a stop-and-go character to the successive scenes, but if treated sympathetically it moves well and generates great cumulative power. Musically it is a cross between Tchaikovsky in its melodic and harmonic language, and Rimsky-Korsakov (in his historic operas The Maid of Pskov and The Tsar’s Bride) in its dramatic form, scale, and sense of epic pageantry. If it lacks the immediate memorability of works by those two composers, it is crafted to Taneyev’s exacting technical standards and maintains one’s full interest upon repeated hearings.

    As for the recording, my response is far more positive than that of my colleagues. Back in the 1960s most performances by Russian ensembles (excepting those led by Evgeny Mravinsky), particularly of Russian Romantic repertoire, have a rough-hewn, earthy quality to them. Far from bothering me, I find this to be a virtually essential element; nothing could be further removed from an authentic Russian performance tradition than the ultra-smooth polish of a Karajan. In the present instance, what I find remarkable is not that one of the old USSR’s provincial ensembles lacks a certain degree of technical refinement, but that it does not compare unfavorably with several better-known rivals. (And, for that matter, I’ve heard 1950s-era performances of Verdi and Puccini by various Italian opera companies with much worse choral and orchestral work, which nonetheless gain critical plaudits due to the presence of star singers such as Callas and Tebaldi.) More to the point, the playing and singing by all concerned are infused with vibrant commitment, being far more gutsy, spirited, and idiomatic than the comparatively bland account by Botstein. To cite just two examples, the chorus of welcome for Agamemnon’s return packs a thrilling wallop, while the scene where Orestes is beset by the Furies is positively spooky. Far from lacking drive, the conducting is to my ears well paced and dramatically expressive and effective.

    A major and pleasant surprise is that the group of unknown soloists, presumably regulars of the provincial Belorussian State Bolshoi Theater, is generally very good. (I agree with North that Botstein’s singers are overall inferior to the ones heard here, with some of them having pronounced wobbles.) Lydiya Galushkina as Clytemnestra and Ninel Tkachenko as Cassandra both have the vibrato-rich but steady voices characteristic of the best Russian female vocalists, combining tonal opulence and depth with dramatic expressiveness. Tenor Ivan Dubrovin as Orestes is a real find, a Russian tenor with the heft, gleam, and ringing top notes of such stalwarts as Georgi Nelepp, Boris Tarkhov, and Anatoly Orfenov. Of the two baritones, Anatoly Bokov as Aegisthus is stronger than Viktor Chernobaev as Agamemnon, though both are solid. Their voices are remarkably similar, being a bit on the dry side; Bokov (who has the larger role) has a darker timbre and occasionally lurches into his top notes, while Chernobaev is a bit diffuse, with his vibrato not quite centered. The relative weak link is the somewhat thin-voiced soprano of Tamara Shimko as Electra, but even she is passable and her part is relatively small in any case. The comprimario roles are generally well taken except for the soprano cast as Athena, who noticeably struggles with her top notes.

    In his review North commented unfavorably on the sound quality of this CD remastering compared to its original Western issue on LP under the aegis of DG, a point on which I cannot comment. As usual with most current Melodiya opera sets, the booklet has no libretto and provides only first initials instead of full first names for the singers. While I have not been able to locate a copy of the Russian text, a complete English translation of the libretto is available online as pp. 251–92 of a complete Ph. D. dissertation devoted to the work: etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/6753/1/507675.pdf. (I also wish to thank Peter Rabinowitz for providing a copy of the English translation from his previous CD issue of this performance.) For those who wish to test their own judgments against those of Rabinowitz, North, and myself, the opera has been posted on YouTube (youtube.com/watch?v=I6gnEAtsUIs) from a previous remastering that has a significantly more raw sound quality but also more clarity of detail. (It is preceded there by Vladimir Ashkenazy’s recording of the separate concert overture that Taneyev fashioned from the score.) But the verdict from this corner is that we have here an unjustly neglected major work of the Romantic Russian school that fully deserves revival, in a performance that while not ideal nevertheless delivers the goods and is enthusiastically recommended. James A. Altena
    Il s'engendre beaucoup d'abus au monde ou, pour le dire plus hardiment, tous les abus du monde s'engendrent de ce qu'on nous apprend à craindre de faire profession de notre ignorance.

    Montaigne

  7. #27
    Membre Avatar de Krinou
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    Bonjour

    J'aurais voulu réécouter les deux morceaux de Ravel de cette playlist mais ça ne fonctionne pas.
    Est-ce un dysfonctionnement ou bien ont-ils été retirés ?
    Peut-être sont-ils dans la bibliothèque ?

    Merci.
    Sans la musique, la vie serait une erreur.

    Nietzsche

  8. #28
    - Avatar de mah70
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    Bonjour.

    Les liens du message de présentation pour les playlist revoient aux même fichiers musicaux que ceux de la bibliothèque musicale. S'il n'est pas possible de les écouter ici, il ne sera pas possible de les écouter là-bas.
    Cela étant dit, je peux les remettre.L'interprétation avait eu un certain succès....

    La seule certitude que j'ai, c'est d'être dans le doute. (Pierre Desproges)

  9. #29
    - Avatar de mah70
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    A y est, les Ravel de Richter sont de retour.
    La seule certitude que j'ai, c'est d'être dans le doute. (Pierre Desproges)

  10. #30
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    Merci beaucoup Mah, c'est vraiment très gentil à vous.
    Sans la musique, la vie serait une erreur.

    Nietzsche

  11. #31
    - Avatar de mah70
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    Citation Envoyé par Krinou Voir le message
    Merci beaucoup Mah, c'est vraiment très gentil à vous.
    Pas de quoi.
    La seule certitude que j'ai, c'est d'être dans le doute. (Pierre Desproges)

  12. #32
    Administrateur Avatar de Philippe
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    Citation Envoyé par mah70 Voir le message
    A y est, les Ravel de Richter sont de retour.
    Ils sont de retour sur ce thread, mais aussi dorénavant sur le sous-forum Ravel de la BM : http://www.mqcd-musique-classique.co...play.php?f=130

    Les dates de publication sont bidon, mais on s'en fiche un peu non ...
    (d'ailleurs, autant ne pas critiquer le « travail » d'Admin, le bougre s'est déjà vexé pour moins que ça ... )

  13. #33
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    Euh... simple curiosité, pourquoi ils avaient été retirés ? Vous n'aimez pas les compositeurs dont le nom commence par un R ?
    Sans la musique, la vie serait une erreur.

    Nietzsche

  14. #34
    - Avatar de mah70
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    Non. Les compositeurs dont le nom commence par un R nous vont très bien. Ce sont les interprètes dont le nom commence par un R que nous haïssons

    Dans le cas présent, il faut bien l'admettre, ça a été une petite erreur de retirer ces enregistrements. Patapé, patapé.

    La seule certitude que j'ai, c'est d'être dans le doute. (Pierre Desproges)

  15. #35
    Membre Avatar de Krinou
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    Bonjour Mah

    Non, moi pas patapé vous, sinon moi plus playlist, moi pas toc toc !
    Sans la musique, la vie serait une erreur.

    Nietzsche

  16. #36
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    Citation Envoyé par The Fierce Rabbit Voir le message
    Si cela peut servir :

    L’Orestie

    Agamemnon, roi d’Argos – basse
    Clytemnestre, son épouse – alto
    Egisthe, cousin d’Agamemnon, puis concubin de Clytemnestre – baryton
    Electre, fille d’Agamemnon et Clytemnestre - soprano
    Oreste, fils d’Agamemnon et Clytemnestre, frère d’Electre – ténor
    Cassandre, fille de Priam roi de Troie et d’Hécube son épouse, prisonnière d’Agamemnon - soprano
    Un Veilleur – basse
    Un Esclave – basse
    Apollon Loxias (L'Oblique)– baryton
    Pallas Athéna – soprano
    Un Aréopagite – basse
    Un Choryphée – basse
    Le Peuple, Servantes de Clytemnestre, Guerriers, Prisonniers, Gardes du Corps, les Erinnyes, les Aréopagites, participants des Panathénées


    I - "Agamemnon"
    Introduction
    1° tableau :
    Sc. 1 : le Veilleur
    Sc. 2 : Cheur des femmes, Clytemnestre
    Sc. 3 : Clytemnestre, Choeur ddu Peuple
    Sc. 4 : Récite d’Egisthe , Duo
    2° tableau :
    Sc. 1 : Marche et choeur
    Sc. 2 : Agamemnon et Chœur des Guerriers
    Sc. 3 : Clytemnestre et Agamemnon
    Sc. 4 : Clytemnestre, Cassandre et Choeur
    Sc. 5 : Clytemnestre et Choeur
    Sc 6 : Finale : Egisthe, Clytemnestre, Gardes du Corps, le Peuple

    II – Les Choéphores
    1° tableau :
    Sc. 1 : Récitatif et arioso de Clytemnestre
    Sc. 2 : le Spectre d’Agamemnon, Clytemnestre, Choeur des Femmes
    Sc. 3 : récitatif et duo : Clytemnestre, Electre, Chœur des Femmes
    2° tableau :
    Sc. 1 : Oreste
    Sc. 2 : Oreste, Chœur des Femmes
    Sc. 3 : Electre, Chœur des Femmes
    Sc. 4 : Electre, Oreste, Chœur des Femmes
    3° tableau :
    Sc. 1 : Oreste, un Esclave
    Sc. 2 : quatuor : Electre, Clytemnestre, Oreste, Egisthe
    Sc. 3 : Clytemnestre, un Esclave
    Sc. 4 : Clytemnestre, Oreste
    Sc. 5 : Oreste, Choeur

    III – Les Euménides
    1° tableau :
    Sc. 1 : entracte- scène : Oreste, les Erinnyes (Furies)
    2° tableau :
    Entracte
    Sc.1 : Oreste, les Erinnyes, Apollon
    3° tableau :
    Sc. 1 : entracte, Chœur des Athéniens
    Sc. 2 : Oreste, Choeur
    Sc. 3 : Procesion des Aréopagites
    Sc. 4 : Oreste, un Aréopagite
    Sc. 5 : finale - Apparition d’Athéna : Athenea, Oreste, les Aréopagites, le Peuple


    Plus de détails ici


    Pour qui aimerait se plonger ou replonger dans Eschyle :

    Agamemnon : ici

    Les Choéphores : ici

    Les Euménides : ici

    Il existe une traduction du livret d’Alexeï Alexeïevitch Wenkstern par Michel Delines (1851-1914), je n’ai pas réussi à la trouver.
    Pour qui lirait le russe, l’original ici

    On peut trouver une traduction française dans le coffret de cet enregistrement, édité par Melodiya - pour les amateurs, dispo pour moins de 20 € en passant par Amazon :



    Merci beaucoup pour la documentation.
    Sans la musique, la vie serait une erreur.

    Nietzsche

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